History of Rodel/Schlitten

Hallo, I must use English and I'm not sure how to use the forum commands. The question is when did the flat kufen, stiff Davoser-type Rodel/Schlitten evolve into the angled Kufen, flexible Sportrodel? I need dates, location and who, if possible. I am trying to clarify the origin of the Sportrodel-type for my fellow English-speakers. Are there museums of the Rodel or Schlitten? If so I'd like to contact them. I need as much accuracy as possible. Information in the USA is very generalized.

Hi Turboganz. Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I cannot answer your question but I’m shure someone on here can. And you can switch the forum into English in your settings (einstelungen - frontend sprache). Or don’t be afraid to just ask and we’ll get you there.

Hi Turboganz,
as far as I know, the current toboggan construction was developed in 1913 in Bavaria (inclined rails, curved runners, Flexibility).
In Davos, Switzerland, there is a Wintersport-Museum . Maybe they have more information there.

Hi Turboganz
I'm glad to find you joining this forum. You're very wellcome! I love your enthousiastic Youtube-Chanel! You seem to be a real pionieer in your country
Best regards!

Turboganz,

Welcome to our Forum … And it’s a rather interesting question which you post here !!

I found these links, but I’m sorry I couldn’t find an exact answer.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sledding
www.schlittenscheune.de/geschichte-historie.html

Regards
Urs

PS: You may note that the flexible “Rodel”, as it was most always called in Germany / Austria differs from the “Swiss” fixed Schlitten. In Switzerland, the Davoserschlitten and its variations were for many years the “standard device”. The “Rodel” only became popular in Switzerland in the last 20 years or so. Various models are now also built in Switzerland, but as already mentioned, they were not invented here !!)

Thanks for the handy how-to on preferences. I definitely feel a little like a fish out of water. This my first forum anywhere. I remember that we have spoken before Marco. I'll give the source suggestions a try. I'm sure that it all will take some time.

note to moerschsuj: yes, it seems I AM a pioneer in USA regarding Rodeln. The level of ignorance is amazing. I did not think people would be so attached to the Flexible Flyer as they are (I have one). People here think the activity is too childish, too scary or requires too much work (hiking uphill). We have no lift-serviced Rodelbahns in the USA. Ah, yes, and Rodels are too expensive people say. But, they will buy a $15,000 USD snowmobile.

Snowfighter, I finally received a reply from Davos. They claim to know nothing, are not interested in looking and know of no source that would help. I'm trying the second source given by Urs. I'm thinking that your 1913 estimate seems logical, but there is no proof. The other date is 1930s. I am curious, what made you think that the Rodel (flexible frame, angled Kufen) was invented in 1913 and why Bayern? I am taking a scholarly approach to this so I hope that you do not mind that I am trying to be as exacting as possible. The Wikipedia entry has some serious errors regarding Rodels. I am attempting to remedy that. I you can think of what led you to say that date and location, maybe your answer will lead me to a better path.

gasserrodel.at/en/racing-sport/

Hello Turboganz,
you are very welcome in our forum! At the beginning of learning how to sledge down the hill your videos at youtube were very helpful for me.

Thanks a lot!

Best regards
Rodelrobert

Luchs, thanks for the Gasser version of Rodel history. What I find interesting is that the angled Kufen was developed first in 1911, Gfäller and Hagen, Oberaudorf, Germany. The flexible frame came about in 1941 by Tietze in the Brückenberg/Sudeten region. I read a brief story of the complex history of the region. It is a little confusing for a USA guy, but I am guessing that the region is what is now Saxony, Germany. I will assume that Tietze was a German-speaker unless one of you contributors corrects me. The Gasser account is the most informative to date.
To Rodelrobert: Thanks for the kind words. I am very glad that I could help. That is why I made the videos.

Yes, Martin Tietze was a german speaker.
Brückenberg was a part of Krummhübel, which is now on the territory of Poland, the place is named Karpacz.
www.google.at/maps/place/Karpacz,+Polen/...7758815!4d15.7555976

Most members of the german population were expelled after WW 2 from Poland and Czechoslovakia.

My information:

(...) However, the decisive change took place through the invention of the Gfäller brothers from Oberndorf, Upper Bavaria. In 1913 they built a sled with slanted runners, which was shorter and narrower in the track than the other sleds. In addition, they let the cross yoke and construed so the first flexible sledges. Rudolf Kauschka, who won the first European championship in 1914 with such a sledge, demonstrated how directional this style of construction was. (..)
Rodeln für Anfänger und Fortgeschrittene v. Hans Fritz/Gerhard Januschkowetz, 1978
Offizieller Lehrplan des Deutschen Bob- und Schlittensportverbandes e.V.

I am also a proud owner of this wonderful book. An infinite source of wisdom.

Many thanks to Luchs and Snowfighter! The location mentioned earlier was a complete mystery. Thanks Luchs! Snowfighter, I see that you have used Rodeln für Anfänger und Fortgeschrittene v. Hans Fritz/Gerhard Januschkowetz, 1978
Offizieller Lehrplan des Deutschen Bob- und Schlittensportverbandes e.V. as your history authority. That is excellent. I now wish that I had a copy (in English of course). It probably is out of print. So, it appears that the authors are saying that the first angled and flexible sled, that is, a Rodel was indeed built in 1913 and used to win the European championship in 1914. I write this to make sure that I understand. It seems that the Gfäller brothers and Oberaudorf, receive full credit. Am I correct?
Lastly, I tried to find Oberndorf in Bayern. I guessing this is Oberdorf am Lech as shown on Google Earth. Is this also correct?

no, its Oberaudorf.
www.google.at/maps/place/83080+Oberaudor...6473685!4d12.1725472

Here you see how these sleds and their pilots looked:
www.openpr.de/news/349295/Alles-Kultur-K...ist-nicht-alles.html
liberec.idnes.cz/na-jestedu-vzdaji-hold-..._liberec-zpravy_jape

:laugh:

This is Rudolf Kauschka who won the first European Championship 1914 in Reichenberg, today named Liberec.

I think these Gfäller Type sled was pretty stiff and had no rocker in the Kufen at all.

The Tietze had a much lower seat and Kufen with rocker so you can stear it without scratching too much speed away.
www.volksstimme.de/nachrichten/lokal/wer...litten-der-Welt.html

Here are some pictures of the EC in Oslo, where Martin Tietze won, still on the old type of sled.
You see, although he raced under the german Nazi-Flag, he did not ride on a Volks-Rodel (thats how we in Austria call the old junk with stiff and not inclined Kufen)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIL_European_Luge_Championships_1937

commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1937_Eur..._Championships_3.jpg

I am not an expert in the history of luge-racing, just investigating now in the www. Interesting...
Luge racing was divided into artificial and natural tracks in 1964.

Heres another picture of a tietze developed sled:
www.historisches-museum-bielefeld.de/201...des-monats-januar-2/

And more pictures of these sleds after WW2:
www.app-in-die-geschichte.de/documents/5627

twitter.com/hashtag/volksrod

So we can say: Hitler invented the volksrod, but not the volksrodel.
www.torggler-rodelbau.com/freizeitrodel-...lbau-volksrodel.html

Oberaudorf makes more sense to me because of the close location to mountainous terrain. Thanks for the correction. The photos are very interesting. So, it looks like we have a conflict. It does appear that the Gefällers receive the credit for introduction of the angled Kufen, 1913, (Fritz), but there is some question about when flexibility was introduced. So, Tietz had rocker (an important development). Did you find this in one of the stories that you sent? Maybe I missed it. If Fritz is wrong about flex, then we still do not know when it was introduced.
You have really been digging, Luchs. You have the advantage as a German-speaker. I hope that you are having fun. The progression and development of Rodel characteristics is something that has always bothered me. When I tried to find info, all I found were generalities. So, began my search.

get.google.com/albumarchive/113488627040...0Kw8eMGp9ZCm2LvROUvC

It is just what i am thinking, because the tietze must have been a big leap forward.
On the foto in the link from 1905 you see that the kufen look like they are inclined. but we dont know how the runners stood on the ground.
The 2 kufen were connected in the front, that made the sledge completely stiff.
I think the Gfäller brothers left this "Querjoch" and this gave a bit of flex to the front, but the other connections were still solid.
And a pain to steer in the corners.
And here some more inclined sledges that are older than the gfäller thing.
www.mdr.de/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/skimuseum-112.html

So we have the proof that they did not invent it. :blink:

You can back up and give good reason for what you say. I like your style! I just had a homemade pizza and a liter of beer. It will take awhile to digest this. Yes, that's a pun. I am just trying to lay out what we DO know about all of this and be as accurate as possible. Your patience is appreciated.
To continue: After looking at all of the evidence to date, here is what I conclude. Original question: When did the inflexible, vertical Kufen Schlitten evolve into the Flexible, angle Kufen Rodel? Credit has been given to the Gefäller brothers of 1913. However, Luchs provided museum evidence that the angled Kufen existed closer to 1900. So, the brothers cannot take all of the credit. But, they were the first to recognize the advantage of the angled Kufen in competition. Further, they did not use a connecting bridge between the Kufen horns. Was it a flexible Rodel? It depends on how you look at it. Compared to a Davoser, yes. Compared to my Sportrodel, no. Did removing the connecting bridge affect performance? From the standpoint of physics, it had to. Now there were two levers that could be pressured laterally and separately. The brothers intentionally did not include a connection. They must have had a reason. It appears that the Gefällers started the ball rolling toward the modern Rodel and they had publicity behind them. The improvements experienced peaks and valleys over time. Tietze exaggerated the good points of the Gefäller design and added a lower center of gravity, which by default, lowered wind resistance (people at that time did not seem to be too concerned about aerodynamics). He was tremendously successful.
Though not part of the original question, Luchs added the concept of rocker. (I assume that rocker is the French Curve-like profile of the modern Kufen.) I have not seen any solid evidence of when that was added to Rodel design. So, Fritz, as mentioned by Snowfighter, is probably accurate in part. The Gefällers did not independently invent the Rodel in flexibility and angled Kufen, but they assembled the concepts in a way that started people thinking. So for me, the Rodel in principle came about in 1913.
Emails to two more museums remain unanswered. They seem to be more interested in promoting by-gone winners than they are about Rodel design.

civilwarhorror.blogspot.co.at/2013/07/hitler-on-sled.html

You see, even hitler seems not to be very happy with the performance of this stiff sled with high seat.

At least I found a picture of Martin Tietze, winner of the European Championship 1935 in Krynica, Poland. In the middle.

www.sadeckisztetl.com/edc_media/Lite/Ite...automAUTOcFFFFFF.jpg